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Today on Wiser Than Me, Julia sits down with 72-year-old actress, director, and model Isabella Rossellini, currently starring in the film Conclave. The two dive into a conversation about Isabella’s Long Island farm, why she loves referring to herself as ancient, and her personal journey with sexuality and romance, particularly in her later years. Plus, Julia asks her 90-year-old mom, Judith, to recite a perfectly timed Mary Oliver poem and plots a potential adventure with her.
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Transcript
SPEAKERS
Isabella Rossellini, Julia Louis-Dreyfus, Mommy
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 00:01
Hey, listeners, it’s me. Julia, we’re back for season three of Wiser Than Me. We’ve got so much more wisdom to share from the legendary old ladies featured this season. You know, so many of our guests have written memoirs reflecting on their experiences, and by putting it all into writing, they’ve uncovered a better understanding of what truly matters. Jane Fonda calls it a life review, and wisely says, to know where you want to go, you first have to understand where you’ve been. So brilliant, right? That’s why we’ve created a special wiser than me notebook, so you can kick start your own life review and write down some of the nuggets of wisdom these women share in each new episode, we just added these groovy hardcover notebooks to our merch shop to buy yours head over to wiserthemeshop.com today, lemonade, I’m sure I’ve mentioned here on wiser than me that I have a dog named George, whom I love with all my heart. He is perfect. Well, he’s got inflammatory bowel disease, and he is allergic to everything, and he barks way too much when somebody comes to the door. He works so much actually, that it makes my Apple Watch give me a decibel alert thing. But still, he is perfect and coming for me. That’s saying something. Because, you know what? I don’t have an ideal history with dogs at all. First, our childhood dog, Pippy, a miniature dachshund. Pippy was run over by a Volkswagen bug. And I know that’s kind of funny now, but believe me, at the time, it was a complete horror show. And then there’s jack. So Jack was a rescue Cavalier King Charles Spaniel that my first husband brought home unannounced one day when I was eight months pregnant, juggling a four year old working 1000 hours a day on Seinfeld and let’s say, unprepared for the rigors of dog ownership. Yeah. I mean, my first husband was a nice man, but he brought Jack home with no crate, no food, no dog dishes and no plan. And the first thing that Jack did was escape from the house and run as fast as he fucking could, East, like perhaps towards Mecca or Jerusalem. I have no idea, but Lord Almighty, did he take off? He was so fast that my husband got on his bike and I got in a car and frantically chased after him until we finally caught him in the middle of traffic on Sunset Boulevard. Okay, so at this point you can imagine I wasn’t exactly thrilled with this first husband of mine, who I should mention is Brad Hall, to whom I am, surprisingly still married. So the next day, Brad thought it would be a very good idea to drive Jack the dog an hour and a half up a super curvy road to a little beach house where we were staying, and poor little Jack got very car sick, and then when he arrived, he proceeded to have projectile diarrhea all over the place. And I screamed so loud that Brad, in a panic, picked the poor dog up underneath his belly and tried to run him outside. And as he ran, the diarrhea sprayed like machine gun fire across all the walls of the beach cottage. And I really, actually mean all the walls, and if I recall correctly, they also had sisal carpeting. So I’m just put that in your mind. Okay, diarrhea. Sisal carpeting. Yeah, it will not come as a surprise that Brad left within the hour to take the dog back to the shelter, where he waited until Little Jack was happily re adopted by a family that was much more prepared to care for this poor creature, who I fear that we had probably traumatized completely and thoroughly. So many years later, I was convinced to get another dog, a black Labradoodle we adopted from Australia. Since you couldn’t get Labradoodles in California yet, and Brad did his research and figured out how to bring the dog over, which was very good, and it was all very organized. And also, I should say, in my dad’s family, there’s this tradition of naming female dogs after flowers. And since our son, Henry was a giant fan of The Power Puff Girls, the perfect intersection. There was Buttercup, and that’s what we named her. And this is a dog that transformed me. I mean, I was, I still am very much a cat person, but now I’m a dog person too. Buttercup was utterly sublime, and for the next 15. Years of her tender little doggy life, I learned through her what it is to be truly devoted to a dog. I mean, of course, there are lots of reasons to love them, the unconditional love, the companionship, the connection, plus, guess what, there’s a science behind it. This is going to sound bullshitty, folks, but it’s true when people spend time with dogs, and especially when we look into a dog’s eyes or cuddle with a dog or whatever, our oxytocin levels rise. We looked it up, and in humans, it plays a really important role in social bonding and in love and reproduction and childbirth and caring for children after you give birth to them. And here’s the completely outrageous part of all of this, when we make eye contact with our dogs, their oxytocin levels go up too. Isn’t that amazing. So this all leads me to my mother in law, who is 96 years old. Talk about wiser than me, my God. She is one of the dearest, most selfless people I’ve ever known. She is the most selfless person I’ve ever known. Actually, she suffers now from serious frontal lobe dementia, but her personality by the grace of God, or whoever is in charge of the universe is utterly unchanged. And if you met her, your oxytocin levels would skyrocket, because she’s just that kind of a person. So we often take our dog George over to her little cottage to visit, and she has no functional memory at all. So every time she meets our George, for her, it’s like meeting a new dog. And each time we have to remind her that our dog, George is named after her husband, whose name was George, and she laughs, and she throws her head back. She thinks that is just so hilarious. And then she looks George straight in the eye, and she ruffles his fur, and she says, in her inimitable way, she goes all conco the only dogs. And then George, and here’s the amazing thing, he only does this with her okay? He curls up right at her feet, and sometimes even on her feet, and he doesn’t move until we have to go. He just becomes kindness. And how can it be that this little domesticated wolf creature can know exactly what he needs to do to bring a tiny bit of joy to his dearest granny? And isn’t it so wonderful that there are sometimes unexpected places that love and warmth and joy can be found, even when times seem a little dark. You know, as for all of us these days, they often do so when George lies down At Granny’s feet, it just it really makes me weep. And as Shakespeare said, this is such a great line. Shakespeare says, How much better is it to weep at joy than to joy at weeping? So that’s what I’m thinking about today. Sorry, I’m choked up, animals, family, friends, warmth and joy. Let’s focus on that, and that makes talking today with the endlessly joyful Isabella Rossellini just about perfect.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 08:39
Hi, I’m Julia Louis Dreyfus, and this is Wiser Than Me, the podcast where I get schooled by women who are wiser than me.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 09:03
If legendary filmmaker Roberto Rossellini, an iconic Oscar winning actress Ingrid Bergman, had a child together, you might guess the kid would turn out to be either a brilliant director, a phenomenal actor or strikingly beautiful. Well, you’d be spot on, because our guest today is all three of those things and more. The strikingly beautiful part, her 14 year contract with Lancome Made her the highest paid model of her time, the phenomenal actress. Part she starred in classic cult films like David Lynch’s Blue Velvet and Wild at Heart in Marcel duchel and her latest conclave in which she is just sensational. She also steers her own projects, like directing the incredible green porno series that became a viral hit. I love it, diving into the Love Lives of the animal kingdom. Only Isabella could make snail sex both educational and utterly charm. Working, she’s truly one of a kind, constantly experimenting and pushing boundaries and always with a fearless authenticity that even though she’s been doing it for decades, is exciting and surprising and even shocking. And I just love this. In her 50s, as modeling work and acting roles disappeared, she went back to school to get her master’s degree in animal behavior and conservation. At her graduation, she addressed her fellow students to say, I am here to tell you that if you ever encounter a dip in your life, pay no attention to the voice inside of you that judges you, that is negative, that fosters further anxiety. Just follow your curiosities. That’s great for our show. And when Isabella Rossellini follows her curiosity, she goes big. Today. She owns and operates mama farm in Long Island with her two children. They have goats, ducks, turkeys, over 150 chickens and a small flock of rare breeds of sheep named after iconic female artists like Garbo Carlo and O’Keeffe, who does that? The woman is living life entirely on her own terms, but the real legacy she’s building is through her work in sustainability, community and art. I am so happy to speak today with a twin sister, mother, grandmother, creative force and chicken lover who is absolutely wiser than me, the marvelous Isabella Rossellini, welcome Isabella.
Isabella Rossellini 11:31
Wow. Julia, this introduction is so a move. I’m about to cry.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 11:37
I cry on the show, so go right ahead and weep away, is what I have to say. So are you comfortable, if I ask your real age?
Isabella Rossellini 11:46
Yeah, 72 not and a half. Because when I was younger, I will say three and a half, four and a half. Now I took the half away, so it’s 72 not yet a half, but soon.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 11:56
And how old do you feel, Isabella?
Isabella Rossellini 11:58
Well, you know, it’s funny. I never, I mean, inside you don’t change. I haven’t changed since I was like, maybe a teenager. I mean, teenager years are a little bit a torment. Yes, once you hit 20s, doesn’t change inside. The outside changes, but the inside stays the same.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 12:16
So what do you think? You think you feel like you’re in your 20s then?
Isabella Rossellini 12:19
Yes, I don’t know. I never really think of age, you know? I know a lot of people talk about my age. I lost my job for age. I got my job back for age. So my life is very based on age, but I never really think about it so much because, yeah, I don’t know what to do with it. I mean, it just happens.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 12:39
Yeah, exactly, luckily. I mean, the alternative is.
Isabella Rossellini 12:44
So good.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 12:45
So what do you think is the best part about being your age? If you were to say,
Isabella Rossellini 12:49
Well, you know, yesterday I was I saw an interview with Jody Foster and she answered for me. She I wish I could memorize what she said so I can repeat it exactly.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 13:00
Well, you can paraphrase.
Isabella Rossellini 13:01
I’m curious, but I think that what happens is, when you’re young, you have so many things to prove that you’re financially independent, maybe there is, you know, you have to prove that professor, they gave you a bad notice that you were intelligent, capable. Then you have good mother. You raise your children good wife. And then as you become older, that preoccupation lifts, and you just say, Well, I am who I am. With the limitation, I am that intelligent, this beautiful, this fat, this old, and you accept it. So there is a certain amount of serenity. And with that a kind of a freedom, because you also say, Wait a second, here’s not much left. Let me do what I always wanted to do, and I didn’t do it for whatever reason, like for me, was going back to study because, yes, I Well, first of all, there was an animal behavior. It was a new science, so the university didn’t offer it when I was in my is it called ethology? Is that how ethology? Exactly, yes, and it wasn’t offered at the time because it’s relatively there was biology, there was zoology, but not ethology, yes. So that was one reason. And then then I stopped modeling. I was working so I thought, everybody’s saying ethology. What the hell is that you’re working with? Yeah. Jin panzhi, there’s no way to make a living, which is true. So, you know, modeling and all that seemed more concrete. But then when you’re old, you just say, Well, I have my pension. You know what I’m going to study at allergy. There is a freedom that comes with it.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 14:32
Yeah, freedom and serenity. I love that.
Isabella Rossellini 14:35
Yes.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 14:36
It’s funny. It reminds me completely off topic, but kind of related back in the days when I was doing Seinfeld, and there was something that Jerry Stiller, there was a line that he used to say, he used to scream, used to scream serenity now, when he was looking to be calm, he would scream serenity now, which is not exactly, of course, what you’re talking about, but it makes me laugh. Whenever I hear the word serenity, I think of it. So you have this farm, which is incredible, and you are a farmer, and as I mentioned, you have 150 chickens thereabouts, and sheep and bees and the whole nine yards kit and caboodle. What’s your routine like on the farm? Can you describe it, Isabella?
Isabella Rossellini 15:20
Well, you know, also have employees, because, of course, I somehow work as a model and as an actress came back. So I’m often traveling. I’m really more managed. You know, the only thing I do because everybody’s afraid, is the bees, and they don’t need to be attended every day, but every week, or every two weeks, which allows me to travel, be an actress come home, attend the bees, yes, but, you know, feeding the chickens. I mean, I what I try to so I manage it. And the principle is that I could do things that I can do, yeah, because if ever somebody’s sick, I know how to feed them, how to clean the coop, how to water it, how to give a certain medicine if it is not too sophisticated, and we need to call the vet. So I developed the farm with things that I could do directly I see, but you know what’s happening, what I’m getting old, and some of the things that I decided 10 years ago I can’t do anymore, like, what like, what like cleaning the coupe because there is a lot of shoveling and my back hurts. Oh, that’s hard on your back, right? But at least I know how to do it and what it takes. And I think that makes you a good manager, because you have a sense of what it takes. Because, you know, farming was so far from the way I grew up, although it was not so far as it is in America, because in Italy where I grew up, farm is around, and the culinary tradition in Italy is so present that farmers market, we only ate food from the farmers market. We never went to the supermarket. We went to the supermarket. If there was, I don’t know, a pandemic, a war, I mean that was the emergency. You never buy frozen food, it was every day fresh fruit from the market, and so we had a relationship with farmers. We went to see their farms. So that was it was a kind of different way of eating than here in America.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 17:15
Wait, can you just back up for a second? Because I need to hear about bees. I’m so curious. I’m tempted to have bees.
Isabella Rossellini 17:21
I’m going to tell you the craziest thing about bees. What male bees? They have a grandfather, but not the father. How do you like that?
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 17:32
I like it. And I’m curious. Continue, please.
Isabella Rossellini 17:36
So their genetic is different than us. So in the bees, there is only one female, the queen. Yes, that reproduces. So she’s born. She flies off as a virgin in a natural flight. She gets mated with several male she goes back and she starts a hive, and she has a spermateca, like we have a discotheca or a bilboteca, as we say in Italian, attack. She has a sperm attack. She collects the sperm so she flies off in this natural flight for one day. She collects all the sperm that she will use throughout her life. Her life is generally about three years, and she would use the sperm to create daughters and no sperms to create her sons, the drones.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 18:24
But wait, explain to me grandfather and not
Isabella Rossellini 18:28
So the drone has a grandfather because the Queen has had a mother and a father, because you have a mother and a father to be a female, yes. So the newly born son called the drone has a grandfather but doesn’t have a father. Oh, I understand, because the queen doesn’t use sperm to create the males. It’s not a clone, because it’s a different sex. So it’s a different genetics. And to me, dealing with those bees is like going to Mars, to another planet. They’re nuts.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 18:59
Tell so like when you go in there and you’re doing your beekeeping work, what does that look like?
Isabella Rossellini 19:04
So it depends on the season. So you want to make sure that, first of all, you want to make sure that the Queen is laying eggs and the Queen legs about 1500 eggs per day.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 19:16
Good God.
Isabella Rossellini 19:17
The hive is, you know, 40- 50, 60,000 bees. So you want to make sure that there is eggs and that the Queen is alive and well. You also check for disease. Varroa mites, is a mite that affects a lot of the bees, and so you have to put medicines and to try to treat them for it, there is beetles at my attack. Once I found a mouse inside the hive, they killed it. All the beasts jumped on it and they punt. They stung it, and he was dead, all swollen, dead from the sting. So they defend themselves, but, but you have to check and then it depends on the season, you know, like. Now it’s starting to be there is not much food for them. They’ve made the honey that it is the food that they will eat during the winter, but I stole it. I took it. I just left some. But I have, I’m feeding them in the winter. Throughout the winter, I give them two type of food. One is a liquid food when it’s not too cold. And then I switch to solid food, a patty, kind of sugary patty. And then I stop around March when I see them coming and bringing pollen, because I know that now they can feed. And then I don’t feed them anymore, because the honey wouldn’t be very good if I give them this artific You know this?
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 20:43
Oh, I see.
Isabella Rossellini 20:44
You want the flowers you want to Yeah?
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 20:48
You’re supplementing their diet. Since you’re taking away some of their own food source, I understand completely. Yeah, that’s fascinating. That is absolutely fat. Have you been never Sorry to keep asking these questions, but I’m going strong.
Isabella Rossellini 20:59
So many times, once I had to do a mammogram, and I attended my bees in the morning, and they attacked my hand. And I had a hand, it was enormous, and I went for a mammogram. And the doctor kept saying, no. What’s wrong with your hand? No, nothing doctor, have bees. They just stung. Don’t worry, I’m here for a mammogram. My mom died of breast cancer. Please do with a mammogram? No, we have to do an x ray of your hand. No, Doctor, please. It’s just my bees.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 21:27
Oh, my God. So most of the animals on your farm are, for the most part, female. Is that correct?
Isabella Rossellini 21:35
Yes, they’re female. Well, 90, naturally, 90% of the bees population are female.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 21:39
Yeah, but what about the animals?
Isabella Rossellini 21:40
Yah, the chickens. So the chickens, they lay eggs. So I have a hard time killing animals. I’m not a vegetarian. I’m just a hypocrite, because I just eat the food, but I cannot eat the animal that I’ve raised myself
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 21:53
I see
Isabella Rossellini 21:54
And I have a really hard time killing them. I tried to learn how to do it, because I thought it was part of my duty, but it’s just horrible. So another way of managing the farm is that we don’t, don’t kill any animals. Plus there is no good how you call it now, see, do you speak languages? And so sometimes word comes in a different language, abattoir, French, matatorio, Italian. Slaughterhouse, English. Finally it came. There is no good slaughterhouse in Long Island, and one of the stressiest moment for the animal is to be transported to the slaughterhouse. So the slaughterhouse can be humane or not. I mean, they say, I mean, I don’t, yeah, but I’m sure there is various degree, but the transportation, it’s very stressful. So I decided not to have any meat so we can have eggs. Therefore I need only female. Because the chicken, they lay eggs. They don’t need a rooster. The eggs is like our menstruation. They but only they do it every day, right? So they have an egg every day. You don’t need a rooster for having eggs. You have sheep and goats. At the beginning, I had only female males sometimes fight. But now I have two males that are castrated, and they are angels.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 23:18
Did you have to have them castrated? Or they came that way.
Isabella Rossellini 23:21
They came that way.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 23:22
I say, that’s the way they got entrance.
Isabella Rossellini 23:25
My neighbor had them, and so I met them when they were little. Lambs just born, and she was going to eat them. And I said, Well, if you don’t eat them, I like to have them, because I just saw them, and she and she castrated them.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 23:40
That is hilarious. You know, your son describes you as going from the big city life to a really different lifestyle at the farm. It’s almost as she becomes a different person. So I want to know about that. I want to know what’s the difference between big city Isabella and and farm Isabella. How would you describe.
Isabella Rossellini 24:01
Well, you know, the way of dressing changes completely. You know, in the city, you have to dress up a bit. You have to be clean. In the country, you know, shoes are different, yeah, clothes are, you know, old. Sometimes I might have a beautiful designer jacket, but old, so has been promoted to being a farm jacket.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 24:27
But, I mean, is it a different mental state for you?
Isabella Rossellini 24:31
A little bit, but I’m a lot in the country, so either work, I’m, I’m very seldom in the city. First of all, if you are from New York. You were born in New York.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 24:43
I was born in New York, yeah.
Isabella Rossellini 24:45
It’s difficult to leave New York, because new love makes you believe that he’s the center of the world. And if you leave it, you’re going to become peripheral to culture, or peripheral. So at the beginning, I was going to the city much more often, going to see. To shows, and little by little, I am doing this less. So I go to the city, and now I become like a farmer. I say, so much traffic, it smells so bad, so much noise. I complain, you become that person. Yes, I became that person.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 25:18
But all of your family has moved I believe, yes, so you’ve got everybody, your daughter, your son on the farm.
Isabella Rossellini 25:27
And my three grandchildren. I have three grandchildren, three grandchildren. How old are they? The smallest one is seven months. And then there is a three year old and a seven year old.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 25:36
Oh, how divine. It seems. Very sort of matriarchal. Is it?
Isabella Rossellini 25:41
It is matriarchal. It’s funny, because people, we have this bed and breakfast, I’m talking to you from this bed and breakfast, yes. And often when guests come, they say, there is a very strong female energy. And strangely enough, you know, we’re booked for conferences or seminar. And often there are things related to women, whether it’s menopause or lactation, birth, somehow. That’s how we got the name mama farm. From the beginning, this land has a female energy. Not only it was me starting, and my daughter is very involved in creating all these programs. So it was mama farm, because it was Mama’s farm, yes, but also the chickens were all female because we don’t need a rooster. We just selected for the eggs. So female bees. 90% of the bees female. And then so many mothers came with their children to show them. Oh, this is the season of the carrots. This is the season of spinach. Look at the flowers. And so it became naturally mama farm. And still, and it’s very has a very feminine energy. They call it Mother Nature.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 26:52
You say Mother Nature, I say feminine instinct. Yeah, you know, right?
Isabella Rossellini 26:57
Well, I think so. You know, I was wondering, I forgot if I read it somewhere, there’s new anthropology book. Anthropology is the study of men. Yes, they’re emphasizing the women role. For example, they say, you know, one our ancestor, took the vertical position. Unfortunately, it became very, very painful to give birth, because our hips had to be smaller and the birth canal became more different, narrow, so it was difficult to have a baby come out, and that’s why it’s so painful. But these new women? Anthropology said yes, but that means that that could have evolved only if there was collaboration, altruism, teamwork, because a woman needs another woman to help her deliver the baby, pull it out of her, take care of the baby while she’s recovering. There was already an enormous mortality, and they would have all died if there was an collaboration and altruism. Oh, fascinating, fascinating, isn’t it? Yes, it’s fascinating. It’s fascinating. And this is how the new study of women point of view that they don’t look at anthropology like competition and who is strongest. And maybe was a we are. Of course, our culture skews our studies, skews our questions. So now there are these women asking this question one of the series that I’ve done as a director. You know, I make these short, funny films, green.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 28:32
Yes, which I love, by the way, I love.
Isabella Rossellini 28:35
So every of my films are called Green porno, but actually they are called other things. But the first title was green porno. It was so powerful, yes, that no matter what I do, they say she does green porno. Yes. So one of the green porno series was called mamas, and he was about maternal instinct. And it was a series of fantastic ethologists, biologists, women, they looked into maternal instinct. We all think we know what it is, but then when you really look into it, he’s never been studied from a scientist point of view. Oh, my God, right. So they’ve done all these studies to see, is it true that mothers are ready to die for their children? And the answers is more complicated. Some mothers eat the babies. Some babies eat the mothers. Anything goes.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 29:27
That’s so funny. That’s an amazing thing to consider studying a maternal instinct. God, I have to, I have to think about that.
Isabella Rossellini 29:37
There’s an incredible movement of women in science that are asking different questions that were never asked before. But I think this idea that women mammals not female, but because they are sometimes male that take care of you know, the oyster is the male that takes care of the baby. The sea horse is the father that become pregnant. Yeah. But I think in mammals, because we have to breastfeed our babies, we also look at them. We have an opportunity to observe them closely than the father, yes, and we also become evolved to be more attentive to little indication, to little things that are not verbal, and then I think we are very good at farming or animal behavioral studies.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 30:27
That makes so much sense, don’t go anywhere. My conversation with Isabella Rossellini continues after this quick break.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 30:39
I love this story from your memoir, you had a childhood game used to play with your mom. You would ask each other which animal you would want to be in. Your mother said she’d like to be a horse. And you said, I’m afraid I would just be a sheep. I belong so strongly to a herd. Would you still say that same answer is?
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 30:39
I do. I think so. You know, I think that I have a sense of community. I mean, my farm is very central to our community. Yes, my children and my grandchildren live around us. My daughter went to she studied at the London School of Economics, so she went to London to visit some friends. And when she said, you know, my mom has dinner with us every night, and she lives in a house next to us, they said, Is it a problem? Because in the, I think in the Anglo Saxon world, it’s in as ethnic or something. But yes, I am a sheep.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 35:48
You’re a sheep. Are you gonna do you see yourself aging in place on your farm and being here? How divine?
Isabella Rossellini 35:55
Yes, I speak to so many friends who say, you know, I’m concerned about what am I going to do when I’m old? Who’s going to take care of me? How am I going to make it? And yes, I have no problem. I mean, wheelchair. Just wheel me in front of a coup, then take me to the pasture of the sheep. Yeah, I think it’s going to be easy to take care of me when I’m gone.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 36:18
That’s very nice. You’re very lucky. So you had a great dad, Roberto Rossellini. He was obviously a legendary film director, but you described him as being a seahorse. You said that if he could have given birth to you.
Isabella Rossellini 36:31
He would always said to me, I’m so jealous that women can get pregnant. I want to breastfeed you. Why can’t I do it? It was I remember once he was doing an interview, and he asked me to sit and wait until the interview was over in a hotel lobby, and the journalist asked him, What kind of a father are you? And he said, I’m a Jewish mother.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 36:54
That’s adorable.
Isabella Rossellini 36:56
And he was a Jewish man, and the stereotype of a Jewish mother, yes, he would have liked very much to to be pregnant and give birth and breastfeed us.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 37:06
And so was he like your primary source. Do you think of emotional support when you were young?
Isabella Rossellini 37:12
Both my father and my mother, my father, when I became a teenager, became a very Italian father, very jealous, very worried about my virginity and a boyfriend even always went nuts. So when I was a teenager, I became closer to my mom, but when I was little, I think I hover more around my dad, who loved animal. Was very adventurous. I think I continued to live my life very closely to how my father lived life.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 37:42
It sounds like even though he was protective of you and maybe defensive view when you became a teenager or a young woman, it sounds like he was very supportive of you as a woman. Is that correct?
Isabella Rossellini 37:55
I think so. I think, you know, I don’t know. I lost my dad when I was 25 years old, but I think he would love my great porno and my work at the farm, but he would be uncomfortable with me as an actress. Oh, really, yes. I think he was very worried that acting was you have to be chosen. You always have to please, and therefore you are in not you could be easily put in a role that it is not active, but reactive. I see, and I think that’s, that’s what he feared.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 38:30
Probably he envisioned you having more control over your life, perhaps.
Isabella Rossellini 38:34
Exactly, yes, and I did. I did have control over my life, but I think when I I became an actress after he died, because I didn’t want to be yelled at.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 38:48
Well, it’s funny. You say that because I see that. You said that after the death of your dad. You said, If I were to divide my life into before Christ and after Christ, it would be June 3, 1977 Yeah, when, when he passed away, and I lost my dad. Yeah, I lost him eight years ago. It’s interesting how the ground shifts, doesn’t it? When you lose a parent.
Isabella Rossellini 39:12
Incredible.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 39:13
Can you talk about that shift and how you recover?
Isabella Rossellini 39:17
Exaftly, it’s the ground shift or the ground collapsed. I felt that when I had my parents, that there was an anchor, that there was a continuity in the past, and I can just be in the future, and all of a sudden, when I didn’t have them, and they died four years apart, there was this void in my back and I, you know, and I felt very precarious, very untethered, perhaps, yes, very it was right. I got scared to live life without them I was living life. I mean, I was 25 my mother died when I was 30. But still, I think not having them left a very big void also. Well, I mean, I wonder, you know my father, my father and mother were exceptional people. So I’m sure that everybody misses their parents, but sometimes I wonder if I have missed them more also because they were exceptional human beings.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 40:15
Yeah, and also people knew them. They’re known. So it’s a strict it’s that’s a that adds another layer to this, that maybe is complicated, or maybe it’s comforting,
Isabella Rossellini 40:27
Maybe a layer to remember that, because I think of them every day, and I wonder if I think of them every day because of my love to my parents, or because I’m reminded because, you know, when I give an interview, they ask me about my parents, or I ran into people so I don’t know.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 40:42
Yeah, speaking of fame, you said when you were little, you didn’t really understand your mom’s fame, and that’s such an interesting idea to consider, because when my kids were little and I was having some fame. I know they didn’t understand it. When people would come over and say they needed a an autograph or something, that it was it was off putting. It was an intrusion.
Isabella Rossellini 41:12
So I remember once my son, yes, we were at the beach, yeah. And my son was running up and down the beach, and would go up to people and said, Isabella Rossellini, is my mom, and, you know, at the time I was so I got so embarrassed. I called him aside. I said, Roberto, why did you say that? I don’t know. They seem to like.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 41:36
Hilarious when my son was really little, and at the time I was because I was on Seinfeld, and we were on a lot of magazine covers, etc, so he was really sort of used to seeing me in on the front page of something. And we were walking by, we were walking by a bookstore, and the front window of the bookstore had a bunch of books all about Margaret Thatcher. There was some book that had just come out about her life, biography of and it was her face on the front. And he looked, and he goes, Look mommy, that’s you, any woman on the cover of any.
Isabella Rossellini 42:15
Any woman was you because also you’re an actress, or you can have a wig, you can change my daughter when she was also six or seven, maybe smaller, she went to they were teaching her to remember her last name and her address, just in case she got lost, she could tell a policeman. My name is Electra wiederman. This is my address and the policeman. So they were teaching all the children, remember your last name, remember your address. And then they were asked they were interrogating the children to see if they understood it. So they went to my daughter and they said, Okay, Electra. Her name is Electra Elettra. You’re lost at the airport. What do you do? And she said, Well, I’ll sit under my mom’s poster. And she said, what would that do? She said, haven’t you noticed in the streets and the airport, photos of mama and daddies everywhere. So if someone get lost, you just sit there. She hadn’t even understood what was my job. She thought it was photos of all the mommies and daddies. So you can get lost. You go underneath that poster.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 43:18
That is so dear, that is so adorable. Your your mom wrote a bunch of diaries. Did she not your mother?
Isabella Rossellini 43:28
Yes, she wrote a diary when she was young, and then, I think, when she became very known in Hollywood, yeah, she stopped writing it because she was afraid that somebody might steal it and publish it or and so she stopped, stopped writing her diaries. But we do have her diaries from, you know, age 1214 when her father gave her a little book to keep a diary all the way till, until she was maybe 36 or 37.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 43:56
Oh, wow. And so did you learn a lot about your mother reading these diaries, did you?
Isabella Rossellini 44:02
So I couldn’t read them because she wrote them in Swedish, and I couldn’t read Swedish. But it was really interesting, because in what the first diary opens by saying, My dad gave me this diary, and I’m really happy to keep a record of when I’ll be an actress and I will become very known. That’s the first thing she wrote, really. So I was, I thought, This is extraordinary, because we gave all my mom’s archive is at the Wesleyan University that has an incredible film archive.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 44:36
Yes, my son went there. That’s Janine Basinger.
Isabella Rossellini 44:40
The great, yeah.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 44:41
It was her. It was his teacher.
Isabella Rossellini 44:45
Fantastic archivist and film preservation, yeah, yes. So it’s there. And so Janine had the DIARY Translated, so we read the most interesting passages, but this was, was your opening. And then. Friend of mine gave me the answer. He said, Oh, I hope I think a lot of diaries start like this. Just a mother, it happened, but a lot of people’s diaries, Oh, I see, I’m gonna make it. That made sense. I thought, Oh, my mom, look at this.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 45:16
Oh, I see. But it just so happens she did. She did. Yeah, yes, of course. So I know that I wanted to talk about a time of your life because I thought this would be interesting from sort of a well from a life experience point of view, 1990 1982 to 83 A lot happened for you, if I’m getting this correctly. Your mother passed away, you got divorced, you got your first Vogue cover, and you had a daughter.
Isabella Rossellini 45:47
Yes, yeah, it’s true. I’ve never thought about that. Yeah. That happened all in between 82 and 83 what make changes?
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 45:54
So wait a minute, how did you get through that period of time? Did you have someone who did you look to for guidance? Was it hard to have a baby not having your mother around?
Isabella Rossellini 46:07
So hard yes, no, I didn’t have it. Of course. I yes, it was hard, and that’s why I tried to be, not only very present with my children. Had their baby in March. I was offered to do a series, but that’s where my third grandson was born. And I said, No, my accountant was berserk. She said, You’re gonna make so much money? I said, Yes, but more important to be here for my son, and no, but you can be my grandmother later on, I said, No, the grandmother is here the first day the baby’s born, the first child. The first child is the hardest, wasn’t it for you, too? It’s such a surprise.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 46:45
Such a shock. It’s a shock to have a person who you’re responsible for and who takes precedence over you exactly. There’s an ego shift that is, shall we say, disarming, which is an understatement.
Isabella Rossellini 47:02
And then that everything you do, it becomes so complicated, you know, so Oh, I forgot to buy the meal. Let me go out. No, you can’t go out. The baby’s sleeping the Earth. There’s no babysitter. You cannot leave the baby alone at home. Everything becomes so difficult.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 47:18
So difficult, it’s a new it’s a new way to frame your entire life. It’s funny that you said that about your accountant and getting a job, because I remember I was offered a job during the summer, and this is when I was going to be taking I only had one child at the time, but they had this thing when they would start nursery school. They called it separation. So you would bring your kid to nursery school, and then you would be there for the first two weeks, and so he becomes finds his way, and then you slowly move out of nursery school. But I knew that if I took this job, I would miss that I wouldn’t be able to do it, and so I didn’t take the job. And I remember my agent said to me, this is the worst decision of your career.
Isabella Rossellini 48:03
Yes, yeah well, I was, told to say many times, yeah, it is the best, you know, because there are other jobs that come and there is nothing. There is a quality of life. And the quality of life comes, not only with the jobs, comes also with the family and the relationships. Yeah, I also think, I don’t know if you agree with me. I also think that all, all of women, of I mean, I’m older than you, but and I’m wiser. When you say wiser than me, I say, Oh, my goodness. Now, why am I going to say that he’s wise?
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 48:34
Now, you own it. You own it, Isabella.
Isabella Rossellini 48:38
But I think that dude, you know, my generation, your generation, younger generation, we had career we moved into, became producers, became director. Yeah. You know, feel that men dominated, but the job is still organized according to this division where there is always a woman at home, taking care of the family. Oh yes, that is the next step. I think that the feminine world has to enter into the world of jobs, films, everything. I mean, just look at the tax I can take as a tax break. If I go to lunch with you to discuss this interview, we can, yes, make it which we must, I insist you do, but it’s a tax deduction. You can take it off your taxes, yes, but if I have a babysitter, I can’t take her off. Oh, fascinating. It continues to be a problem that has to be resolved somehow.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 49:37
Well, we need more women in government. Let’s start with that.
Isabella Rossellini 49:40
You know, talking about women in government. I think that’s how I got my job back at Lancome.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 49:45
Oh yes, talk about that. Please tell the story of the first stint at Lancome and then the second and that evolution, because it’s an amazing story.
Isabella Rossellini 49:56
So I got this beautiful contract, which is the. Extraordinary cosmetic line, Lancome, yes, and I worked for it for 14 years as the only model and extremely successful. And in the midst of this enormous success, I got news that my contract was not going to be renewed, and I was very surprised.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 50:16
But no, wait a minute, how many years were you under contract for like, that time?
Isabella Rossellini 50:21
14 years, and then I turned 40 at 41 and I will start, really, rumors that I wouldn’t you know, should I should be I will not renew my contract. So I asked to talk to the top guy at the time, yes, and he’s explained to me, gave me a rationale. He said, women dream to remain young. Advertisement is about to dream you are going to be 42 soon, and at 42 you cannot represent that dream. That’s why we have to find somebody younger. We’re, you know, very grateful for your work. They were very gracious, but you’re not going to work with us anymore. I asked. I mean, they had all the marketing tools, you know. So when I asked my friends, you like to stay young, nobody said, Yes. Nobody said, No, I want to be elegant. I want to be playful. I want to be sophisticated. I don’t want to stay young. But some said, Oh yeah, it’d be nice to stay well, 23 forever, but it was really a minority, but I didn’t have the instrument they had. So 23 years go by and I receive a call from a woman saying, I would like to hire you back. And I say, What about the dream of remaining young forever, because I’m 23 years older? Can I come to Paris? Can you pay my airplane to come to Paris, because I want to meet with you, because I don’t understand it. So I arrived. I was very anxious. I arrived at the restaurant before everybody else, and then I was waiting, and I’d see a motorcycle.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 51:50
Wait a minute, hold on a second. Why were you anxious?
Isabella Rossellini 51:53
Well, I was, I was so lost. You know, 23 years of and how they want me back. I didn’t understand. I said, if you want somebody older, because you want to fight ages, get Helen Mirren, get Meryl Streep, if you get me back, that story that was controversial, because when they let me go, that was controversy, some women got very offended. It’s going to come back. I don’t know how to protect you from this story. What am I going to say? Yes, no, we insist it should be okay. So I said, Well, I want to come and really flush it out, understand it. And when I arrive at the restaurant earlier, I was sitting there waiting, and I see a motorcycle and a woman dressed in black leather coming out of the motorcycle, taking the cask of blond hair flowing like Brigitte Bardot. She came and she said, Hello, my name is Francois Limon. I’m the new CEO of Lancome. I said. Said, No more, and now I understand you are a woman. And she said, Yes, my intent is to be more inclusive, to define beauty, not as a certain age, a certain race, a certain weight, but trying to really give instrument to everybody, to embellish, to play, to be creative. And that’s how I define beauty. And so I got back.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 53:19
Wow.
Isabella Rossellini 53:20
And I’ve been now with them for 10 years.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 53:22
Oh my god, isn’t that amazing? It’s an amazing story.
Isabella Rossellini 53:27
But I think that the sensibility that she had is that she understood that you can reach out to women that sometimes feel discarded, feel that have no voice, because we all want to be elegant, we all want to be creative. We all work. I’m changing my makeup based on that principle. Okay, explain that. You know what? I’ve noticed that I’ve used my makeup as hiding my age. I would put things under my bags, under my eyes, and I’ll put a little bit of rouge on my cheek. And then I said, Wait a second, I don’t represent that. And I saw incredibly enough, at Lancome, there is a lovely man who uses makeup, but he doesn’t use it to look younger. It doesn’t use it to look like a woman. It uses it as a decoration. It uses a creative expression. And I said, I’m going to do your makeup. Tell me what you’re using. And now I am putting a little orange under my eyebrows. I always used very little makeup all my life. I mean, sometimes I use a lot of makeup because I’m an actress or a model, but in my real life, I use little makeup, but now I’m using it as a touch of color, not as trying to be younger or trying to hide something that I think is wrong, like a pimple.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 54:54
Okay, but wait a minute explain. So I just want to understand the a little bit of orange, uh. Sort of on your eyelid, underneath your eyebrow.
Isabella Rossellini 55:02
Yes, right under the eyebrow.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 55:04
But what does that orange do? I don’t understand that, because I’m going to try this as soon as we as soon as this podcast is over, I’m going to the bathroom to do this.
Isabella Rossellini 55:12
So do you know that generally, you put an eyeliner and then you put some color in your eyelid, and then in the right underneath the bone, you put a little darker, so a little, you know, shade, so your eyes seem more deep, like when you are young, and you don’t have the eyelid drooping. But if you do the makeup just a color underneath your eyebrow, it still looks like makeup, and it looks interesting. It looks a little bit punk, a little bit Rebel, and it is a little bit rebel, but a 72 year old rebel, nothing to be afraid of.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 55:51
Yeah rebellion. And, of course, lipstick, right?
Isabella Rossellini 55:56
Lipstick I’ve always used, because the makeup artists, all of them, they worked with the best. They all gave me the same answer. They said, choose a feature in your face that you like about yourself and make it bigger. And everybody said that I had good lips. So, yes, I made just red lipstick.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 56:16
Done, okay, I love it. So we’re getting tidbits. You bets, it’s time for another break. There’s much more wisdom from Isabella Rossellini, when we return.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 1:01:09
Were you aware of the power of your beauty when you were younger and then you were not?
Isabella Rossellini 1:01:16
No. First of all, I was chubby. Then I had scoliosis, which is, you know, they took me to the hospital. There was deformity department oh.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 1:01:28
Wow.
Isabella Rossellini 1:01:29
It’s clear what I had. The scoliosis is a very common deformity of the spine, only that mine was very severe. So in my life, I had to have two major operation. I have 17 vertebras that are screwed together. Basically.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 1:01:45
do you have pain in your back?
Isabella Rossellini 1:01:45
I do, have pain in the back. I mean, I have strategies, I swim, I do exercise, massages. I have to have a regime, yes, to keep me from pain.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 1:01:59
But Isabella, once you got past that, and you became a young woman, and you were, of course, very beautiful. Were you aware of your the power of your beauty then and then? Can you talk about how, if you were aware of that power, how that power has evolved as you’ve gotten older?
Isabella Rossellini 1:02:18
There was an element of great surprise, you know, I always felt that my forte as a model was that I was a very good compass with photographers, and they understood what they wanted, and it was almost like creating a character for films. In fact, I didn’t want to act because my mom was so famous Ingrid Bergman, and so I was intimidated, and my father didn’t want me to be an actress. So when I became a model, it was great, because it was something that I was I didn’t realize that it was something that was that I grew up with. I thought it was a complete different job. And and then, until Richard Avedon one day said to me, Isabella, the models are a little bit like silent movie star, because I’m not photographing a beautiful nose, a beautiful mouth. I photograph emotion. You have to show me emotion, and that’s what I photograph. I see, and then that’s why you should be an actress, he said. And you know, as a model, you’re always worried, you always think the thing would last a couple of years, and then what do you do next? And so I was thinking, What do I do next? And it was Avedon that encouraged me to be an actress. And I tried. He said, You just have to add words. So I added words with an accent. Yes, it was a problem. But now, no, it isn’t a problem. I’m working with Pixar. I’m working now. It’s an accent.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 1:03:39
So Isabella. Moving on to another topic, there was this really incredible interview where you mentioned that there hasn’t been a piece of art that accurately reflects your sexual life in your 60s. And I would love to talk about the relationship with your body as you age. You know your relationship to intimacy and sex.
Isabella Rossellini 1:04:03
So I don’t have sexuality. I, you know, I haven’t had a boyfriend in 25 years, but for a brief moment during COVID, how lucky I was. I didn’t have a boyfriend for years, and then just before COVID, as we were on the lockdown, I met a man who I liked a lot, who then left, yeah, after COVID. So the COVID lockdown for me was fantastic. It was.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 1:04:29
It was a sexual dalliance.
Isabella Rossellini 1:04:31
Exactly, so how it happened? I had my children and my I adopted my son as a single mom, because I was getting older, and I want I come from a family of a lot of brothers and sisters, so yes, I wanted my daughter to have that. And I was getting old, I didn’t have a man then, or a man that with whom I wanted to have children. And so I adopted my son, Roberto, and I. Still had boyfriend going out, but it was difficult, you know. And the day never ended, you know. It started at five in the morning to get the children ready to school, and then dinner, and then walk, you know, bath and reading the story, and then the boyfriend was another dinner, another, then he wants to make love. The day never ended. So I was going to the therapist, and I said, How do I handle this? You know, I get up at five. It’s still one o’clock. I’m still doing something for somebody. And she said, but have you ever tried not to have a boyfriend? And I had not. I always had somebody, you know, like, if it wasn’t a boyfriend, still somebody who went out trying to figure out if he could become a boyfriend and all that, she said, try and since, as you know, I am very adventurous, yes, right? That’s I’m going to try to be single for six months.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 1:05:52
I love that. That’s an adventure. That’s good.
Isabella Rossellini 1:05:54
Yeah, let me try. I never tried. It was fantastic. So it was fantastic. It was so serene. There was no up and down. You know, I slept. It was I could take care of my children without worrying that somebody else needed attention, somebody else needed attention, or that there was tension among them. Because when he’s not the father, they don’t like it so much the boyfriend, so the six months became a year, two years, three years. And then I thought, well, you know it, it’ll happen. And I spoke to other friends, oh yes, I haven’t been married in three years. Okay, any so I never made the choice. But 25 years went by without a boyfriend, but for that very brief COVID parenthesis, luckily, otherwise, I would have been locked up by myself.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 1:06:48
But here’s the thing, are you missing that now? Do you want to have another boyfriend? Are you happy to be back to being single?
Isabella Rossellini 1:06:54
I think because I have a big community, yeah, I don’t need a man. I mean, if I fall in love, yes, but otherwise, a lot of friends of mine say, oh, you know, can come to dinner. I have somebody who can be a companion, but I don’t need a companion. I have plenty of friends. I have grandchildren. I have my community here in living in the village. It does have to be single. It helps. It helps to live in a farm, because you have, you’re part of a community in the city would be harder, because going to parties without a husband or a companion is the worse you are. You I cannot enter a party by myself. I hate it to go to .
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 1:07:38
What do you do? Do you take a friend with you?
Isabella Rossellini 1:07:40
Well, but they don’t want to come because most of the time is boring or too much chit chat or or, you know, red carpet, so they are shoveled in the corner waiting for me. And so they don’t want to come. None of my family wants to come. And then sometimes other friends don’t want to come. And so I don’t go to parties, but I never really liked them. So I don’t miss them. Sometimes I miss the companionship, you know, like, oh, let’s go see this movie together. Let you know, coming out and discussing it. But it’s not something so big, the missing that it would that would make me force together.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 1:08:17
That requires a change, so let’s talk about reinvention, actually, because, well, for example, your performance in death becomes her, which, which was so wonderful, really, so wonderful. And we’re talking, of course, about eternal youth in that movie and in your in your memoir, you wrote something so beautiful, which was, I may not like myself old, but I like myself ancient, yes. And I think I know what that means to me. But what does that mean to you?
Isabella Rossellini 1:08:48
Well, you know, I can give an example. Come to mind, I don’t like, you know that? You know my neck, you know, I’m just looking at my dog’s neck. I like how much I like it. And I look at my neck and I don’t like it, and I say, why don’t I do why do I like my dog’s wrinkles, and I don’t like my wrinkles, but so Okay, getting old has this aspect, but I’m ancient, and I love it. I had a wet nurse. I was born in Italy after the war. There was no formula. My mom was 38 I think, when she had me and my twin sister, so she didn’t have enough milk for two. And I was raised by a wet nurse. So that’s ancient, and I love things in me that are ancient, that I can connect to, something that existed in the past, but long time ago, and they don’t, don’t exist anymore.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 1:09:47
Hey, let’s talk about having a twin sister. I have sisters in law who are twins, although they’re identical twins, and you are fraternal twin. Do you? Do you feel like a psychic connection to your. Sister to your twin sister?
Isabella Rossellini 1:10:02
We, no, we don’t feel a psychic connection, but I’m definitely closer to her than my other seven brothers and sisters. Seven. Yes, we say we’re big families. For some of them, I’ll have brothers and have sister. Sure, there is a bond, but I also fought with her the most too. So yes, it’s the most bonded, but also the most fights.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 1:10:23
Do you get to see her a lot?
Isabella Rossellini 1:10:25
Oh, a lot. Yes, we see each other a lot. We almost speak on the phone every day.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 1:10:31
Oh, gosh, that’s so lovely to have that connection with someone, a sister, a sibling. Okay? Isabella going back to animal behavior. Now I can’t remember exactly where I read this, but you were talking about something called cryptic female choice, and I am so dying to hear more about this. Can you tell us about that?
Isabella Rossellini 1:10:56
Right, isn’t that a fantastic name? Cryptic female choices? Again, is the point of view, maybe, of the masculine point of view that looked at courtship. But this is a scientific term. Is it scientific term? Yes, they looked at courtship as a way. For example, I don’t know birds dancing until the female Israel succumbs. Exactly that. Look at the word you’ve used succumb, because we are so used to thinking that is the male that does something spectacular and the female gives into it. Yes, cryptic female choice instead is what the female might do to keep control and not succumbing to a male. For example, my chicken, you tell me, if this isn’t fantastic, and I’m slightly envious of them, if a rooster jumps on them and they don’t want to be mated, they can spit the sperms out like we would spit our saliva. Isn’t that great? It’s phenomenal. Phenomenal. Ducks. Ducks, they have a vagina like a labyrinth. Crazy. This is already crazy. They have a vagina like a labyrinth that has many canal. One canal leads to the eggs, the others don’t, so the penis penetrates to female duck, cryptic female choices. She sends them to a dead end because she has several canal so she doesn’t care. She lets the duck. She wants to be the father of the baby in the right canal. That leads her to the eggs. Cryptic, female choices, you don’t give up power.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 1:12:51
I mean, it is too good.
Isabella Rossellini 1:12:54
It is too good. And those are all new studies that are coming to the surface. And a lot of them, a lot of the great questions are asked by female scientists.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 1:13:10
Cryptic female choices might want to be the title of a book you write. I think there’s something to it that is so spectacular. I mean, you could, yeah. I mean, chapter one could be choosing to be single as a cryptic female choice.
Isabella Rossellini 1:13:29
Absolutely.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 1:13:31
Um, okay, so couple of quick, short questions I ask at the end I’m going to throw at you, Isabella, is there something you’re looking forward to?
Isabella Rossellini 1:13:40
Yes. I mean life, you know, life is so interesting. It’s full of interesting things. I just signed up for a course in ornithology to learn more about birds.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 1:13:52
Oh, fantastic. Is there something you would go back and tell yourself at 21?
Isabella Rossellini 1:13:57
Yes, be a direct, a film director earlier.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 1:14:01
Oh, when did you first become a film director?
Isabella Rossellini 1:14:05
55, and my film about animals, you know? Yeah, I think they I think they’re good, they’re fun, yeah, I should have done more of it. I should have cultivated that voice more? Well, yes, you are but, but sometimes you need a lot of time to get to a certain point to get to a certain point.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 1:14:32
Is there something you wish you’d spent less time on? Isabella in your life?
Isabella Rossellini 1:14:37
Yeah, that’s a very good question. Well, maybe having boyfriends, frankly, maybe I should have been single more frequently here and there just be with the one I really loved.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 1:14:50
Okay, is there something that you would like me to know about aging?
Isabella Rossellini 1:14:57
Well, I’m not. Worried about you. I have the feeling that I’m not worried about you. I say you laugh because laughter, I mean, I mean laughter helps a lot, isn’t it? I think you would find it very wonderful. I found it very wonderful. People don’t believe it, but it really is wonderful.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 1:15:22
Well, I mean, you know, I’m aging, and I have found it to be wonderful thus far. Me too.
Isabella Rossellini 1:15:27
That far is really wonderful. Yeah, the only thing that I’m a little worried is if I get sick with pain. Yes, I had pain with my back, severe pain occasionally, and that’s very hard, but that is short of pain, everything else. Sometimes I wondered if I could. I sometimes lost the ability to walk twice in my my life, and that was scary. Relearn and it was scary, but no, it was also interesting.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 1:15:58
I have to say, what was interesting about it?
Isabella Rossellini 1:16:01
Was interesting the contact with other people that live like that, discovering the solution, discovering a whole community. I think, you know, I volunteer for the Guide Dog Foundation, and mostly we raise dog for people that are can’t see. And people say, how do you separate from the dog after you raise them because you’re part of a community, and that community is so clever and so full of life and so challenged and yet so capable, so strong, they are an inspiration. So My dog is my connection to them.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 1:16:41
Oh, that’s beautiful. I love that community, baby. It’s the it’s, it’s community and laughter.
Isabella Rossellini 1:16:49
Yes, community and laughter is a very good combination.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 1:16:52
Yeah, it really is. Well, thank you so much for taking time. What a delightful conversation.
Isabella Rossellini 1:16:59
Yes, now are you going to talk to your mom?
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 1:17:01
Yeah? What should I say to her?
Isabella Rossellini 1:17:03
Well, say hi, ask her if community and laughter has been her secret.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 1:17:07
Okay, I will. She’s 90.
Isabella Rossellini 1:17:09
90 good for her.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 1:17:11
Yeah, I’m going to ask her, yeah. I’m going to hang up with you, and I’m going to call her on Zoom, and hopefully she’ll be able to turn the zoom on, and we’ll be good to go.
Isabella Rossellini 1:17:22
She has problem with Zoom. I have problem with Zoom too. Yeah, who doesn’t?
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 1:17:26
I know, who doesn’t. But anyway, thank you so much. It’s been utter delight. I would like to come and stay at your bed and breakfast.
Isabella Rossellini 1:17:32
Come anytime.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 1:17:34
Okay, I think I might. And you can show me the bees and yes, all of it, yes.
Isabella Rossellini 1:17:40
Absolutely.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 1:17:41
Calm anytime, okay. Well, lots of love and many thanks. You’re very generous.
Isabella Rossellini 1:17:46
Thank you so much.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 1:17:51
Wow. Well, that was all just so mind blowing. I learned so much in this conversation with Isabella. I got to get my mom on the zoom right away to tell her all about it.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 1:18:04
Hi, Mommy.
Mommy 1:18:05
Oh, hi, love.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 1:18:06
So I just talked to Isabella Rossellini. And first of all, she knows the podcast. So she goes, Are you going to call your mom now? And I said, Yes. And she goes, I will tell her. I said, hi isn’t that fun?
Mommy 1:18:20
But people seem to love the little stuff we say.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 1:18:23
Yes, gosh, you’re gonna love listening to this episode. She’s such a delightful human being, and so giggly, and she’s got a lot of joy in her life.
Mommy 1:18:36
We can’t get too much of that.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 1:18:37
No, but she has a farm in Long Island. She has a bed and breakfast there would be fun to go. And she has a lot of animals. I mean, for real, that would be fun to do, to spend a day a night there and look around the farm and figure things out. Oh, dear. I think I’m concocting an adventure, Mommy. I may have to take you away to go there.
Mommy 1:18:59
I will do that. Oh my god.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 1:19:01
And then maybe we could tour the farm, and she has a farmer who does incredible things there, and she’s got the sheep and the chickens. Oh, wait, so this is what I’m gonna tell you. So there’s a scientific term, and it’s called cryptic female choices, and it has to do with certain animals in the animal kingdom who, when they are mated with, have the ability to control certain aspects of mating. For example, if a chicken is mated by a rooster and doesn’t like the rooster, the chicken’s vagina can spat out the sperm.
Mommy 1:19:43
Wow, but is that a conscious thing, or is that something that our body does? I sort of think with it’s so easy to personify the animals that they’d like, but there’s a wonderful phrase in a Mary Oliver poem you should love the soft animal of your body and whatever happens to open us up, to be fertile, to be whatever, I just wonder whether or not that sort of happens with animals under certain circumstances, and they don’t like think, Oh, I like it. I don’t like it. It’s just something that happens to them, to their bodies to permit the opening.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
It’s funny. You say that Mary Oliver quote because she was talking about how she likes the soft wrinkles of her dog, who’s old, but she doesn’t like her neck and she aims to like her neck the way she likes her dogs wrinkles. It’s sort of the same idea.
Mommy
Oh, how wonderful that she has found this.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
I know she’s had such a very interesting life, you know.
Mommy
So many things were, you know, that were open to her to do. And I’m sure that in some ways, you know, and she had such a youth of so much attention for her looks and for being who she was, but the fact that she was able to take that, when it was offered, and be, I’m sure, so grateful for it, but then to find something that she could make be herself, something that she already loved, but that she could then create a body out of.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
That’s fantastic. And by the way, this is not the only thing she does. She’s also a director. She continues to act. She’s in this movie that’s called conclave. So she’s doing a lot of things, but she wanted me to ask you, if you agree with her, I think, which is the key she thinks to aging. I guess she might say happily or aging. Well, as simplistic as this sounds, is laughter and community. And I’m sure you agree with that absolutely, absolutely, and I think you’ve got both of those things going for you, Mommy, don’t you?
Mommy
I do, but community is it comes and goes. You know, in other words, we all talk about community so that we have a group that we think about, but it has to be nurtured.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
Yes, it has to be nurtured. And that is laughter.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 1:23:38
It’s funny. You say that Mary Oliver quote because she was talking about how she likes the soft wrinkles of her dog, who’s old, but she doesn’t like her neck and she aims to like her neck the way she likes her dogs wrinkles. It’s sort of the same idea.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 1:23:48
Fine, yeah.
Mommy 1:24:21
Yeah, it’s a good poem.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 1:25:03
It’s good, good one. It’s a good one.
Mommy 1:25:06
Okay, well, to everybody and. Keep heart yes and have a little fun if you can.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 1:25:12
Yep.
Mommy 1:25:13
Love to you guys.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 1:25:14
Okay, love you, Mommy. Soft animal, my mommy.
Isabella Rossellini 1:25:18
Yeah, you oh, my god, yeah. Love you.
Julia Louis-Dreyfus 1:25:22
Okay, love you.
CREDITS 1:25:22
There’s more Wiser Than Me with Lemonada Premium on Apple, you can listen to every episode of season three. Ad free. Subscribers also get access to exclusive bonus interview excerpts from each episode. Subscribe now by clicking on the Wiser Than Me podcast logo in the Apple podcast app and then hitting the subscribe button. Make sure you’re following Wiser Than Me on social media. We’re on Instagram and Tiktok @wiserthanme, and we’re on Facebook at Wiser Than Me podcast. Wiser Than Me is a production of Lemonada Media. Created and hosted by me Julia Louie Dreyfus. This show is produced by Kryssy Pease, Jamela Zarha Williams, Alex McOwen, and Hoja Lopez. Brad Hall is a consulting producer, Rachel Neil is VP of new content and our SVP of weekly content and production is Steve Nelson. Executive Producers are Paula Kaplan, Stephanie Wittels Wachs, Jessica Cordova Kramer, and me. The show is mixed by Johnny Vince Evans with engineering help from James Sparber. And our music was written by Henry Hall, who you can also find on Spotify or wherever you listen to your music. Special thanks to Will Schlegel, and of course, my mother Judith Bowles. Follow Wiser Than Me wherever you get your podcasts. And if there’s a wise old lady in your life, listen up.
